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	<title>Comments on: Agile antipattern: Burndown charts that hide the truth</title>
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	<link>http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/07/agile-antipattern-burndown-charts-that-hide-the-truth/</link>
	<description>Agile For All</description>
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		<title>By: Mauro Botelho</title>
		<link>http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/07/agile-antipattern-burndown-charts-that-hide-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-574</link>
		<dc:creator>Mauro Botelho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileforall.com/?p=1088#comment-574</guid>
		<description>Very interesting post!

I never thought about the danger of tracking &quot;remaining hours&quot; and you are right, we could get to the end of the iteration with just 5h remaining, but still we wouldn&#039;t have delivered any business value.

Perhaps this hasn&#039;t happened to my teams yet because we inherently try to focus on delivering the stories and not just tasks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting post!</p>
<p>I never thought about the danger of tracking &#8220;remaining hours&#8221; and you are right, we could get to the end of the iteration with just 5h remaining, but still we wouldn&#8217;t have delivered any business value.</p>
<p>Perhaps this hasn&#8217;t happened to my teams yet because we inherently try to focus on delivering the stories and not just tasks.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominique Stender</title>
		<link>http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/07/agile-antipattern-burndown-charts-that-hide-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-480</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominique Stender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileforall.com/?p=1088#comment-480</guid>
		<description>Hi Bob,

thanks for responding. 

I didn&#039;t mean to say that your point is not valid, sorry if it didn&#039;t come across that way. Your second chart is telling the truth perfectly well. My argument is more towards what I read from it vs. what I don&#039;t read from the first. In other words, personally I find the future (points / hours left) more relevant than the past (points / hours already &#039;done&#039;).

Hope that clarifies a bit. Anyways, great post and yes, I will read that other article of yours :).

Have a happy new year!
Dominique

--
http://www.st-webdevelopment.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bob,</p>
<p>thanks for responding. </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to say that your point is not valid, sorry if it didn&#8217;t come across that way. Your second chart is telling the truth perfectly well. My argument is more towards what I read from it vs. what I don&#8217;t read from the first. In other words, personally I find the future (points / hours left) more relevant than the past (points / hours already &#8216;done&#8217;).</p>
<p>Hope that clarifies a bit. Anyways, great post and yes, I will read that other article of yours <img src='http://www.agileforall.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>Have a happy new year!<br />
Dominique</p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
<a href="http://www.st-webdevelopment.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.st-webdevelopment.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bob Hartman</title>
		<link>http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/07/agile-antipattern-burndown-charts-that-hide-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-478</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Hartman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileforall.com/?p=1088#comment-478</guid>
		<description>Dominique, I think the point you raise is valid but so is mine.  It is part of why I wrote a later post &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/28/agile-antipattern-another-burndown-chart-that-lies/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Agile antipattern: Another burndown chart that lies&lt;/a&gt;&quot;  Using a burnUP chart shows more information.  A burnUP chart for hours is more useful than a burndown because it COULD show the amount of hours left to complete (probably an upwardly trending line).  I still prefer to measure story points rather than hours (what have you finished creating vs. what have you worked on) and I prefer to do it with a burnup.  Cumulative flow charts (borrowed from lean/Kanban) can also be useful but are harder to automatically create.  All of the burndown charts in these blog posts have been created with a simple Excel spreadsheet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dominique, I think the point you raise is valid but so is mine.  It is part of why I wrote a later post &#8220;<a href="http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/28/agile-antipattern-another-burndown-chart-that-lies/" rel="nofollow">Agile antipattern: Another burndown chart that lies</a>&#8221;  Using a burnUP chart shows more information.  A burnUP chart for hours is more useful than a burndown because it COULD show the amount of hours left to complete (probably an upwardly trending line).  I still prefer to measure story points rather than hours (what have you finished creating vs. what have you worked on) and I prefer to do it with a burnup.  Cumulative flow charts (borrowed from lean/Kanban) can also be useful but are harder to automatically create.  All of the burndown charts in these blog posts have been created with a simple Excel spreadsheet.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominique Stender</title>
		<link>http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/07/agile-antipattern-burndown-charts-that-hide-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominique Stender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileforall.com/?p=1088#comment-475</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to agree to the general idea of the post, but isn&#039;t the issue mostly caused by looking at events that already happened? 

Tracking the time that the team already spent on a project doesn&#039;t say anything about the grade of completion, the article got that right. The second chart uses story points instead of hours as unit for the vertical axis. The effect is as the article describes, the burndown chart now shows the amount of completed work instead of amount of time spent.

However I&#039;d argue that the major benefit of the second chart is that it also shows the amount of work &lt;em&gt;that is left&lt;/em&gt; which the first chart does not.

While the difference seems to be minor at first glance in my experience it is a critical shift in the way people have to think. I as a ScrumMaster do not care the least bit about how much time the team spends on User Story #4711. That information might be interesting for billing the client and for the sprint retrospective. All I care for in terms of &quot;how well are we doing&quot; is how much work is left vs. how much time is left. 

The past is irrelevant. Just to be clear, the second chart in this article shows that, only the article text is not very clear about this difference.

my 2 cents,
Dominique

--
http://www.st-webdevelopment.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to agree to the general idea of the post, but isn&#8217;t the issue mostly caused by looking at events that already happened? </p>
<p>Tracking the time that the team already spent on a project doesn&#8217;t say anything about the grade of completion, the article got that right. The second chart uses story points instead of hours as unit for the vertical axis. The effect is as the article describes, the burndown chart now shows the amount of completed work instead of amount of time spent.</p>
<p>However I&#8217;d argue that the major benefit of the second chart is that it also shows the amount of work <em>that is left</em> which the first chart does not.</p>
<p>While the difference seems to be minor at first glance in my experience it is a critical shift in the way people have to think. I as a ScrumMaster do not care the least bit about how much time the team spends on User Story #4711. That information might be interesting for billing the client and for the sprint retrospective. All I care for in terms of &#8220;how well are we doing&#8221; is how much work is left vs. how much time is left. </p>
<p>The past is irrelevant. Just to be clear, the second chart in this article shows that, only the article text is not very clear about this difference.</p>
<p>my 2 cents,<br />
Dominique</p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
<a href="http://www.st-webdevelopment.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.st-webdevelopment.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave Rooney</title>
		<link>http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/07/agile-antipattern-burndown-charts-that-hide-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Rooney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 13:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileforall.com/?p=1088#comment-396</guid>
		<description>Excellent post!  This is exactly why I tell teams that I coach to focus on stories and not tasks.  They may be completing tasks like there&#039;s no tomorrow, but still not finishing stories (and thus delivering value).

I also tend not to use sprint burndown charts at all.  Depending on the team&#039;s preference, I use either a kanban-style board for the stories, or just the simple &quot;4-dot&quot; status on the story cards - Development Started, Development Complete, QA Complete, Accepted by Business (i.e. Done, Done).

Again, the tasks are secondary and just used to identify what needs to be done to deliver the stories.

Dave Rooney
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theagileconsortium.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Agile Consortium&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post!  This is exactly why I tell teams that I coach to focus on stories and not tasks.  They may be completing tasks like there&#8217;s no tomorrow, but still not finishing stories (and thus delivering value).</p>
<p>I also tend not to use sprint burndown charts at all.  Depending on the team&#8217;s preference, I use either a kanban-style board for the stories, or just the simple &#8220;4-dot&#8221; status on the story cards &#8211; Development Started, Development Complete, QA Complete, Accepted by Business (i.e. Done, Done).</p>
<p>Again, the tasks are secondary and just used to identify what needs to be done to deliver the stories.</p>
<p>Dave Rooney<br />
<a href="http://www.theagileconsortium.com" rel="nofollow">The Agile Consortium</a></p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/07/agile-antipattern-burndown-charts-that-hide-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 01:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileforall.com/?p=1088#comment-395</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by AgileForAll: I just created a new #agile blog post: : Agile antipattern: Burndown charts that hide the truth http://bit.ly/8mSLwU...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by AgileForAll: I just created a new #agile blog post: : Agile antipattern: Burndown charts that hide the truth <a href="http://bit.ly/8mSLwU.." rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/8mSLwU..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Agile antipattern: Burndown charts that hide the truth -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.agileforall.com/2009/12/07/agile-antipattern-burndown-charts-that-hide-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Agile antipattern: Burndown charts that hide the truth -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 20:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileforall.com/?p=1088#comment-392</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Bob Hartman, Agile Carnival. Agile Carnival said: Agile Bob - Agile antipattern: Burndown charts that hide the truth: See that burndown chart over there to the left?... http://bit.ly/6h8kIq [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Bob Hartman, Agile Carnival. Agile Carnival said: Agile Bob &#8211; Agile antipattern: Burndown charts that hide the truth: See that burndown chart over there to the left?&#8230; <a href="http://bit.ly/6h8kIq" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/6h8kIq</a> [...]</p>
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